Alex: Alright, bro, cool. So basically, just a couple of introduction questions. So, kind of who are you? Where are you from? What kind of got you into music? If you could tell me a little bit about yourself and your journey that made you become a songwriter.
William: Yeah, sure, man. So, I’m Will, I’m from Chichester, was born in London and moved down to Chichester, Portsmouth area when I was about 12 years old with my parents. I actually originally didn’t want to do music when I was like 8 years old. That wasn’t something that came to me. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur when I was actually like a really small kid.
Alex: Wow.
William: But then, like later on in life, I think when I was 12, my dad got me the Live Aid tape of Queen, and I watched that in the living room on the TV, and I was like that is just the coolest thing I’ve ever seen. And then I went to secondary school, my parents sort of forced me to play music. I played the drums, piano, I used to play the violin.
Alex: Oh, really? How long have you played those?
William: So I’ve played the violin since I was 8, drums since I was 7.
Alex: Wow.
William: Piano since I was about 7 as well. A whole load of different instruments. I was always in choirs as well.
Alex: Wow.
William: And it was just something I was always encouraged to do, in the family at home. So, I did that, and kind of pursued that just because I was kind of forced into it. And then, I think at age 14/15, I was in like a bit of a rebellious stage; I started smoking a bit of weed, that kind of thing.
Alex: Yep, yep.
William: And I pretty much quit everything except the drums. I didn’t really play a whole lot of music for about 6 months or so. But then I found myself sort of just playing piano. I would just kind of go and sit and play. I came from a classical background, so I could always move my fingers fairly well and knew what was what.
Alex: Yeah.
William: I knew a bit of theory. But then I just started playing stuff that just sounded nice and sounded cool. And I was really into, well, I’ve always been a big fan of soft-rock music like U2, Coldplay, that kind of world. I’d sort of play and write stuff similar to what I was listening to. I didn’t even know what I was doing at the time, to be honest with you.
Alex: Yeah.
William: [inaudible] writing a song at all. And again, I would just play and keep playing, then eventually people would say oh yeah, that sounds alright, it’s not bad that. And then I think at age 13/14, no, not 13/14, 15/16 after I played for a bit. I just thought I could be really good at this, and I really enjoy it because I just do it the whole time. And then, I kept playing. I think I wrote my first song in lockdown in COVID, my first proper song. Which I look back on and it’s crap.
Alex: [laughs]
William: But you do it at the time, and you think it’s really cool. I semi-produced it in GarageBand and got my phone mic and recorded the piano and stuff. And I put it out as a YouTube video, and people were like this is quite cool and it was shared around the school and stuff like oh yeah, this is actually not bad. I was like oh thank you. And then following on from that. I didn’t really want to go to uni at all, to be honest with you. I’ve gone to uni because my parents wanted me to, to be honest.
Alex: [noise of agreement]
William: They were like, find a degree that you want to study and something you think would be interesting and something you enjoy and then go. Because I, to be honest with you, when I graduated, I just wanted to fuck off to Thailand and figure out my life from the beach.
Alex: Yeah.
William: I am glad I went to uni, I’m in a very nice position now. So, I came to uni and came onto the pop course as a keys player and just figured that I would learn as much about the industry and the world of music as I possibly could. And anyway, in my first year, I played a lot of keys, I learned a lot about synthesisers. [Inaudible] and that guy from Gotts Street Park who’s a tutor as well, and I learnt a lot. But I just found that every session I’d go to and everything we’d do, I would always come with a song. And I actually wrote a lot in first year. I wrote a lot more in the first year than I have since because of the other stuff I’ve been up to. But everyone would be like you should be on songwriting, what are you doing on this course. Then I moved to the songwriting course. That was kind of my background that was quite a long-winded answer.
Alex: No, no, that’s what I wanted. Just an extension on that question, what was it about, obviously you said you’re from the Portsmouth area, originally from London. What was it about Leeds, specifically Leeds Conservatoire, that made you choose to study there? Obviously, there are a plethora of options down south.
William: Yeah, there’s a real variety. I think I wanted to leave home. That was definitely the first thing I wanted to go somewhere different, and somewhere where I was a little bit uncomfortable, and I could grow as a person. And I applied for Manchester Royal Northern College and didn’t get in, so Leeds was the next best option, to be honest with you.
Alex: Alright, I respect it. So I kind of wanted to talk to you specifically because you have got an interesting relationship with your musical career because of how many things you do outside of it. So, if you could give me a little bit of insight into what it is you do for a job and for a career. And how that relationship is, as that being your primary source of income alongside the music. I wondered if you could just tell me a bit about what you do, and yeah, if you could just go into that a little bit?
William: Yeah, sure. So just to preface this answer before we get into it, because music for me has always been a real passion and something that I just love. And especially, I go through phases as I’m sure all musicians do. I’m about to get into a phase of writing and producing lots. But phases where you do it more and you really love it, and then you phase out because life gets in the way. But in the peaks of those phases and when you’re really writing and producing loads, I love it. But to caveat that at the same time. I’ve always said that I don’t love certain parts of it. So, for example, I would rather have a job in a tech company than be a piano teacher. Would be an initial example.
Alex: [noise of agreement]
William: And so, I always wanted to make sure that I can do it in the way that I wanted. And I think over the last 2 to 3 years, God or the Universe or whatever you want to call it or believe in has led me more towards what I’m doing at the minute, rather than playing gigs and producing lots.
Alex: Yeah.
William: I’ve had multiple bands and had multiple gigs organised, and everything fell through. And maybe it was because I wasn’t trying hard enough. But I think I’m quite a hard worker, and so I feel like that was the world guiding me to pursue something else. And so what I do at the minute is, I remember at the end of my first year, I had tried to play a bunch of shows, and I had done a lot of writing and started putting stuff out online. And I got to a point where I just made no progress in a year, and I needed to get better at music or at marketing, or figure out a way of making money from this. So, I took a course on how to make TikTok shop videos, because it was when that was at its peak at least in the states. And I got into that and worked pretty hard at that for a summer and a few months later it started going pretty well. I got good with promoting apps. Using AI videos and showing my face talking stuff as well.
Alex: Yeah.
William: I did pretty well at that I ran up like 100 million views or so.
Alex: Wow.
William: Then I started managing small teams of people that were making these videos for these apps and brands. Essentially, that skill has just grown. I’ve learnt how to manage teams of people, and I’ve learnt more about content marketing and systems. I recently, this is news to you as well, mate. I recently signed a job offer from a Tech company in New York, and I’m moving out there on September 1st.
Alex: Wow. Mate, congratulations, that is big, that is real big, man. Congratulations, I am gassed for you, you deserve it, man. You’ve been putting the work in for as long as I have known you, and a lot of it behind the scenes, not necessarily receiving the flowers. So I am gassed for you, man. And you’re going to make things happen out there.
William: I appreciate that and thank you so much.
Alex: Oh, bro, it is totally deserved. How do you feel about that? Now you know that uni is coming to a close, we are almost done. Then you have something as monumental as moving to, well, it doesn’t get any bigger than The Big Apple, does it?
William: I’m very excited. I’m living with a guy called Charlie, who’s one of my best mates and someone I work with as well, and some other people as well. I think it’s going to be awesome, and I think I’m going to learn a lot. And it’s definitely going to be an interesting chapter of my life. I think when I came to uni, if you had told me that is what I would be doing when I’m leaving, I would be like explain that to me. But the fact that it is something I am concerned about means music isn’t completely off the cards for me. And I also think in this day and age, the musicians that do really well, whether you like it or not, are businessmen as well.
Alex: For sure.
William: It is sad to a degree, but I also just think it is reality. You know, Kurt Cobain today I don’t think could really exist. Like maybe he could, but if you’d told Kurt Cobain to start making some TikToks…
Alex: Yeah.
William: And get on social media and promote himself. He’d probably fucking just stop making music altogether. And I’ve always been a wild optimist, and I think that setting myself up in the best way is to learn as much as possible while I hone my craft, and then eventually do music one day, but yeah, I’m very, very excited about it, and I think I’ll probably work there for 2 to 3 years. And then be in a position where the US Visa, anything can happen. And especially now, because before taking this job offer, and still right now, I do run a business, but running a business, you always try and optimise and you try and think of the next big thing that can take you to the next level. There’s this approach from a guy called Grant Cardone, which I really like called 10x thinking. And it’s instead of like how do you change, maybe get like a little more income coming in, or how do you take on more clients. It’s like right, how do I ten times what I have right now in 6 months? I’m constantly trying to think about that and think about these next decisions. I was definitely in a place of transition with the work I was doing, and I think taking this job and the opportunity to go to the United States; it’s essentially set in stone. And what I’m really excited for, as well as the move, is actually the next 6 months. Because suddenly you have this huge mental load removed off your mind, like I spent 6 hours writing yesterday and producing, and I’ll probably spend a similar amount today. There’s a lot of joy that comes from making music just because you want it to sound cool. Than trying to appease a certain audience or fit a certain mould, so that’s what I’m most excited about, for the next 6 months or so, just to be able to truly make stuff because you wish it existed, rather than make stuff to fit a mark scheme or make stuff to fit something else.
Alex: Man, this is awesome. I am totally buzzing for you, for a start. It’s well deserved, and I’m really happy for you, and it’s going to be crazy, man. This is what life’s about. Extending on that, you were talking about now that you have this idea and direction of where you’re going to be in 6 months, if we are looking more long-term, is the goal to achieve financial security or financial freedom through your career outside of music, that then will allow you to pursue music? What’s the long-term direction here? If you could give a general [idea] of what you’re hoping for in the future, do you have an idea of that?
William: Yeah, 100%. So I like to approach life through a freedom metric, and I think that there’s 3 really important freedoms which we have as individuals. There’s time freedom, which is to do whatever you want whenever you want. Location freedom, which means you can go places, and financial freedom, which means that you can basically have whatever you like. And frankly, financial freedom is nice, but beyond a certain point, you buy the food that you like, and you can go wherever you like. I do think all the fancy hotels and Rolexes are pointless, to be honest with you. I think once you achieve those 3, you start thinking beyond that and while at uni I’ve felt entirely sentient, like I’ve had those 3. So I think optimising for a life of freedom, I’ve kind of done that already and looking beyond that, everything becomes about impact. I really admire people who’ve made an impact, made a dent and changed the world.
Alex: Such as? Can you give any examples?
William: Yeah, I can give you a load of examples. Like Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, and Kanye West, those types of people. Kanye West is a controversial figure, but I really admire him for his honesty and the fact that he speaks his mind, and I think that there’s a lack of that today. So, I think that I will try and exercise a creative and positive impact on the world in whichever way that I see fit, coming from a place of abundance. Which is a pretty vague answer.
Alex: No, no, I like it, and it makes total sense, I like it. It’s funny because the last question I had, you’ve kind of already answered it, but it was how would you like to be remembered one day? Not necessarily when you’re dead, but when it’s all said and done and you’ve achieved everything you want to achieve, how would you like people to reflect on your legacy?
William: Someone who positively impacted the world in a meaningful way, and someone who was a good man. That’s what I would probably say. But then I think, with regards to music, inside of every musician and every one of us who’s in the creative sphere. There’s this little painter inside of us, there’s this little bug that you just have to get stuff out. I do think, and I was reflecting on this, that if I died tomorrow, I’d regret not putting out music, that would be it, that would be my only regret, I think. So, creating things that you wish existed is really how I want to live. If I could sum everything up in one sentence, for how I want to approach the rest of my life is that I want to create things that I wish existed. Whether that be music, businesses or companies. Whether that be movements, whether that be inspiring people in some way, shape or form, whether that be film down the line. That, I think, when it’s all said and done, and there’s a base of abundance, will be how I pursue my day-to-day. Alongside other things as well, like I have some bucket list things, I want to travel around the world. I think the majority of my life will be dedicated towards that. And I think it’s a beautiful way to live as well, you can approach it in a family way, like you can create things you wish existed, like an amazing home, like children.
Alex: Yeah, totally.
William: Beautiful relationships. And yeah, I hope that’s a good answer.
Alex: Mate, that’s a great answer. And this is the last question coming off what you were saying about you wish you had put more music out. Are we to expect more music out in the near future? Obviously, you’ve got a lot on with the move in the next few months, but is there something that we are to be expecting in the near future? Some new music, some more gigs or anything?
William: I think so, I won’t be playing shows, to be honest with you, maybe when I move after a few months.
Alex: Yeah.
William: I’m very cognisant that in first year I put out a few tracks, but there was no project and no backing. And probably like a lot of people out there right now, I’ve got 50 tracks just on my computer that I think need to be put out. And I think in the next I don’t know, however long it will take, but in the next coming months, potentially before I even move to be fair, something will be packaged up in a project, and it will be put out. Because I think it would be doing the music a disservice to just not put it out, but also a disservice to not put it out properly. I like the approaches of people like…Pharrell has this really good quote that if you’ve released something and you like it tell everyone about it, and for months. So I think if I can package it up in a way to create a project that is meaningful and has impact and has a good message and a good brand behind it, then I will definitely put stuff out. But obviously, there’s a bit of a hurdle and a bit of a mental barrier, and it is scary putting out music.
Alex: Totally.
William: There’s a load of different concepts, and I think you get decision paralysis to a degree about how you want to wrap yourself up and present yourself to the world. But I think at a certain point, you’ve got to bite the bullet and be like, right, this is going to represent my project, and this is what I’m putting out.
Alex: For sure, man. Yeah, for sure. I know I’ve said the last question a million times, but you keep saying interesting things. You were talking about how much more scary and intimate it is releasing music. But you’re a pretty successful guy in business, you’re a young guy moving to New York in a few months. What is the difference in taking business risks compared to something like posting music? Why is there that barrier there that I’m sure you do have in your business, but your output speaks for itself as you’ve been successful, so what is the difference in releasing music and running a successful business?
William: Good question, something I ask myself as well, man. I think that when you have receipts in a certain sphere, it becomes easier to do those things again and again. You’ll know yourself as being a fighter, that when you win and when you do stuff you’ve done before, you then have the confidence to do it again. Like before we started recording this, we are both running marathons and I haven’t trained as much as I really should but I think I’ll be fine because I’ve done it before and you know what it’s like. But I do think there’s something quite scary, especially if they’re honest songs, about releasing that out to the public. I think it becomes a battle of what’s worse as musicians because you either put it out into the public or you don’t. They’re both equally shit. I think at the end of the day, you do have to just put it out to the public. But releasing the song isn’t the thing that’s scary for me; the thing that I think is scary is the brand.
