News Piece

Rapper ‘D4VD’, real name David Anthony Burke, has been charged with first degree murder following the discovery of deceased Celeste Rivas Hernandez. The 14 year-old was confirmed dead after her body was discovered in the front luggage compartment of a Tesla belonging to the rapper in September 2025.

The rapper is the leading suspect in the case and was arrested last week, April 16 2026. Three charges will be held against Burke, The Los Angeles District Attorney’s office announces, including first-degree murder and sexual crimes with a minor. Despite evidence stacking up against them, Burke’s legal team still claims he is innocent and did not kill the victim.

Seven months after the discovery of Celeste Rivas, an arrest has been made. Jim McDonnell of the Los Angeles Police Department issued a statement claiming that justice requires “patience and discipline” and that it is not their job to “fuel speculation” amid a case this high profile. After being reported missing in April of 2025, the trial of the teen’s murder is about to begin, over a year later. Key details into the murder of the 14-year-old had been kept from public view until last week, after the musician had been charged the need for secrecy had ended. The cause of death was determined on December 9^th, 2025, two stab wounds to the abdomen and chest before bleeding to death. The body was discovered already dismembered and ‘badly decomposed’ according to the report released by the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner. Chief medical examiner Dr. Odey Ukpo says in a statement, “After several months, I am grateful this information can now be released, not only to the public, but also to the grieving family enduring loss.”David Anthony Burke has denied any involvement in the murder of the young girl and will continue to claim innocence throughout the trial. Burke’s lawyers spoke to US media.

Opinion Piece

By Bailey Devereux

April 22nd 2026

David Anthony Burke is well known as successful singer and rapper ‘D4VD’. David was well on his way to becoming a mainstay within the music industry when his career was halted over suspicions of his involvement in the murder of Celeste Rivas Hernandez, a 14-year-old believed to be having sexual relations with Burke, 21.

Whilst on tour promoting his debut album, Hernandez’ body was found dismembered in the front of a Tesla belonging to the singer. Burke soon cancelled the rest of his tour across the US and Europe, amid allegations of sexual abuse with a minor and the potential murder cases coming his way. April 16^th saw the arrest of the musician for these crimes, and he sat in court denying all involvement this week. The evidence continues to stack against him as the trial progresses, with orders for equipment to dispose of the body being discovered during the trial.

D4VD’s persistence in claiming innocence seems unlikely to prevail as more is brought to light in court. The law enforcement of Los Angeles has taken significant time to make a conviction against the artist as they spent time collecting all details of the homicide possible. Burke was believed to be having a sexual relationship with the victim, when his career was threatened by the teen, she was murdered and left to decompose in a car belonging to the singer. Celeste was last seen on the 23^rd April 2025 after taking an Uber to Hollywood to visit the singer’s home. Her body was discovered months later in September, the decomposition of her body signifying she had been deceased for several weeks. With this evidence alone, David Burke’s involvement in this crime is clear and it’s baffling to believe that his arrest has only recently been made. Whether he is found guilty of the murder charges or not, there is a clear story of his foul acts of sexual misconduct, and this man will undoubtably see prison time, and rightfully so. Los Angeles County District Attorney, Nathan Hochman says the charges involve numerous sexual acts with a minor and mutilation of a body as well as first-degree murder. The District Attorney’s office could eventually seek the death penalty in this case, according to Hochman. No matter the defence given by Burke’s legal team, it seems incredibly unlikely for the singer to escape serious prosecution and avoid justice for the sick crimes he has committed against the innocent teenager.

Who was once a beloved, upcoming musician finding their feet in the industry, is now a guilty murderer and sexual abuser who will continue to be defamed in court as this trial continues. 

Interview feature

A 5-piece collective turning heads and exciting ears as they burst onto the Leeds music scene.

By Bailey Devereux

19th February 2026

Shortly following Oxford Comma’s first incredible headline show at the wonderful Oporto venue in Leeds, I got the privilege to sit down with singer, Albert Hacker and guitarist, Jethro Holmes to discuss the past, present and future of the band. Oxford Comma have recently shown Leeds what they’re truly made of with a sold-out headline show and received incredible response from their debut single ‘Fake Fancy Shoes’. It seems the only way is up for these newcomers as they come out of the gates swinging with a bright and prosperous future ahead of them.

The band have been hard at work since they formed in October of 2023, with a slightly different line-up of members and an unclear vision of the future, they seemed to be going nowhere. After a handful of gigs and a member of the band taking interest in other projects, the band decide that Jethro Holmes (lead guitar) would be the perfect replacement to the recent departure. 

“We sort of floated the idea towards him and saw what he thought and then that really changed everything because Jeth came in with a slightly different musical direction. The sound and things completely changed. When we had Rich involved, we were doing things that were reminiscent of the things that we were listening to at the time, and then Jethro came in and swirled things up and got us listening to new stuff and changed the whole direction.” Says Albert Hacker (lead singer), who says he considers the true beginning of the band to be when Jethro got involved in September 2024.

Taking influence from bands such as Inhaler, Wolf Alice and Radiohead, Oxford Comma have managed to create a sound that is reminiscent of their influences yet still bring something new to the scene. Jethro told, “In the band we all like very different things, if you were to get our twenty favourite songs from each person there would be very little overlap of artists. Which is quite unusual, I think a lot of bands are like ‘oh you like the same stuff as I do, let’s make a band’ but because of that weird melting pot of different influences from everyone it kind of creates something that we all have a little part in but it something that’s hopefully actually new but still has different elements of our influences”.

‘Fake Fancy Shoes’ is the band’s debut single, amassing over 18 thousand streams on Spotify since its release in November of 2025. Releasing the song independently and doing little in terms of promotion, Oxford Comma have shown that hard work and good music can still prevail in such a saturated market. Producing the song in house with friend Nate Tozer-Loft, and mixed and mastered by Jethro himself, the single’s numbers speak for themselves. A true testament to their professionalism and clear view of what they want from the industry.

“We were working around with a tune and then we ended up with fake fancy shoes as a tag line and the main sort of section for the chorus. It all sort of clicked in. It was good because me and Millie worked off of shared experience. Because I’ve known Millie for so long, like I’ve known Millie for years, even before uni. In terms of us writing about things that are personal and stuff like that is so easy because we already know everything about each other.” Albert told.

https://open.spotify.com/track/4LxoX4yyBuKkuJxEVys28J?si=e20d8eef21884af1

With an upcoming EP this May, and future headline shows already planned, Oxford Comma seems to be on an upward trajectory. Being noticed by a representative at AWAL and working with great promoters, the band is in great stead to become very successful, very quickly. “We want to get to the point where people are like ‘well this is the one time we’re going to be able to see them, we have to go and see them’ rather than being like ‘oh we can see them anytime, we’ll skip that’.” – Albert on how they plan to structure their gigs this year, keeping it few and far between rather than an abundance of shows.

Album review

By Bailey Devereux

March 8th 2026

Harry Styles has proved that it’s not just one direction for his music, returning with an electro-pop fusion taking his catalogue and artistic focus down a much more experimental and dance driven avenue. Four years after releasing the incredibly successful and well received ‘Harry’s House’, Styles has made many bold songwriting choices to deliver his fourth album, a record unlike anything he has released before. ‘Kiss all the time. disco, occasionally’ seems to have taken heavy inspiration from electronic musicians such as LCD Soundsystem, Tame Impala and Djo all whilst complimenting this new adventure with the vocal prowess we have come accustomed to from his previous work.

‘Kiss all the time. Disco, occasionally’ bleeds creativity in a way that Harry Styles has never shown before. Taking influences from artists you would never picture within a Harry Styles record, he manages to balance electronic dance beats and raw emotional lyricism beautifully, the album is designed to make you move and it achieves this greatly. Tracks such as ‘Ready, Steady, Go!’ and ‘Pop’ set an instant dance driven tone using a strong, thumping kick drum – without words, a listener or audience member is being told to move. Synthesizers are a huge part of this record; they are layered beautifully to create this new electro-pop world that is so unexpected. Making the conscious decision to feature mainly synthesised basslines, obscure sounding pads and beautiful arpeggiators culminates to build a sonic scape you can find yourself getting lost in. ‘Season 2 Weight Loss’ pushes the electronic sound more than any other in the track list and layers it synthesisers in a masterful way. Littered with ear candy, this album calls you back for more to find new details with every listen.

Unfortunately, there is a lack of commitment to this exciting new sound within this album. It appears the album is striving for moving bodies and high energy and this is where the album really excels. However, the energy of the record is interrupted with tracks ‘Coming Up Roses’ and ‘Paint By Numbers’. The choice to include such subdued, downcast songwriting into such a fun and uplifting album does not provide the juxtaposition it was designed for but instead, destroys the momentum of the record. With such a stark change in sound, these songs seem to be an attempt to appease the hardcore Harry Styles fans who are less likely to adapt with this new direction that has been taken.

Overall, an unexpected and well executed attempt at pushing the boundaries of modern pop music. The album melts its influences into an incredible display of electronic-pop music and has a true dance-filled energy within it. With true commitment and conviction this new release from Harry Styles would have undeniably been his best work. However, seeing Styles taking a new venture into electronic influences is an exciting prospect of which can only improve.

Interview Transcript

Oxford Comma Transcription

Me (Bailey):
At no point do I want this to feel like an interrogation, as you know this isn’t going to go to anyone else’s ears so feel free to speak freely. But welcome and thank you for agreeing to do this.
 
Let’s start from the beginning, from the conceptualisation of Oxford Comma… Whose idea was it, whose baby is Oxford Comma?
 
Albert:
Well initially me, millie and kaya wanted to start something up in Leeds because we knew each other before we came here. We got James involved via the life thing from uni. It sort of came out being like that, having the band like that for a little while .and then had a bit of a change. We started again and we brought Jethro in, and that’s where Oxford comma really starts. You know, we did a gig as Oxford Comma but we sort of consider Oxford comma to start essentially the moment that Jethro started.
 
Jethro:
You know I actually went to that gig and thought ‘man I wish I was in that band they’re so good”
 
A:
Which is great for us because Jethro sort of pioneered that new sound. Yeah we sort of changed the sound a little bit and Jethro was a big part of that. So that’s really where Oxford Comma started is when we got Jethro involved.
 
B:
When was it when you got Jethro involved?
 
A:
September of second year? It was right at the start of our second year of uni so 2024,2025?
 
B:
Yeah it must have been 2024
 
A:
September of 24 yeah
 
B:
I have somewhere about that change… You used to have Rich involved, how did it change the productivity. What was the decision, did Rich decide to leave or?
 
A:
Rich was doing a lot of stuff with Pharmacie so you know it ended up it being that there was a clash of timings and things like that and it wasn’t really working out for us because we were really wanting to really really push on and obviously, rightfully so, was doing other things and being involved with other things and it felt like we needed a change to really push on. We were doing a lot of covers and we were trying to write some original stuff but it wasn’t really clicking and it sort of naturally happened in that regard as to then us move on from rich and then we found Jethro… pretty quickly after actually.
 
J:
Because I was doing stuff with Millie. Like over the summer I recorded a little bit of stuff in my room for her and then played a few gigs and then she was like… and had been in a band with you through uni [college] so I kind of made sense.
 
A:
We didn’t have any “We need to find a new guitarist” and obviously Millie was doing her solo stuff and Jeth was in there and I knew Jeth anyway so we sort of floated the idea towards him and saw what he thought and then that really changed everything because Jeth came in with a slightly different musical direction. The sound and things completely changed, when we had Rich involved we were doing things that were reminiscent of the things that we were listening to at the time and then Jethro came in and swirled things up and got us listening to new stuff and changed the whole direction.
 
B:
That’s what you what, someone to breathe fresh air into the band
 
A:
Exactly and made the productivity way better, we just started really kicking on
 
B:
So towards the beginning, what did the first few rehearsals of writing sessions look like?
Was there apprehension or nerves? Obviously you knew the other two before hand so I can imagine it was quite nice to come into it already knowing people.
 
A:
It was pretty chill. Jethro and James both played for Millie
 
B:
So everyone’s got quite a nice connection then!
 
A:
Yeah, in that initial rehearsal for us it sort of just happened really easily because we’d all been working together on other things already. Like the first time we ever played with James, like when the band was before Jethro, that was also so chill. I mean he’s a pretty calming presence anyway as a guy, like he’s so chill it’s as if nothing in the world could ever bother him. He just sort of sat down and he was like “Yeah let’s play these fucking tunes” (Laughter)
 
B:
That’s rare from a drummer as well! There always normally the wild ones aren’t they?
 
A:
He’s great! He knows how good he is so he doesn’t need to show off like he knows when to downplay.
 
B:
I read that you guys take a lot of influence from bands like Inhaler, Wolf Alice and Radiohead. When it came to September when Jethro joined that band, what did you have to do to develop your sound in a way that was reminiscent of your influences but still your own?
 
J:
In the band we all like very different things, if you were to get our twenty favourite songs from each person there would be very little overlap of artists. Which is quite unusual, I think a lot of bands are like “oh you like the same stuff as I do, let’s make a band” but because of that weird melting pot of different influences from everyone it kind of creates something that we all have a little part in but it something that’s hopefully actually new but still has different elements of our influences.
 
B:
You had all of the stuff you were doing in your first year, was there any stuff written at that time that carried over or was it that when Jethro joined the band, you all started fresh?
 
A:
We kept one songs for about three or four gigs, something like that. Because there was one song that we all agreed went down well with a crowd, let’s keep it in but everything else we scrapped. But as soon as we started writing new stuff with Jethro we realised that this tune did not work. You know, it did what it needed to at that time for a short time but it was gone as quickly as possible. When the sound completely changed, it stuck out like a sore thumb in the sets. It wasn’t even remotely close to anything else that we were doing. We even did one cover for a little while as well and even that was way more succinct to set that the song that we wrote. So it lasted a little bit but it was all fresh really.
 
B:
Let’s move more to the present day… What does the writing process look like right now? It’s probably changed a lot since starting out, have you found ways to streamline it, is it more of a group endeavour now or is it one person taking it on?
 
J:
It changes depending on what the song is. We’ve got a song called ‘anchor’ and Millie was just like “I’ve got this song called anchor and it goes like this” (Laughter)
 
A:
It comes in as an acoustic tune and gets brought to the band and everyone then adds their parts and that’s what then makes that sound.
 
J:
And sometimes it’ll be like somebody coming with just a chord progression or just a couple of chords or just a little riff or idea and then we’ll develop it together. And sometimes it can be an entire song.
 
B:
Is it often that it’s a singular person coming with an idea?
 
A:
Yeah sometimes
 
J:
Sometimes me and Millie will work on something and then bring it to the band. Or sometimes you [Albert] and Millie.
 
A:
That’s what tends to happen, either Millie or Jeth will come up with some sonic idea and then we start to pair off a bit. Like Jeth and Millie will work out parts. When we’re all in a room together we’re doing it but then after that we’re like okay we’ve got two hours, Jeth and Millie are going to go off and work out parts and then maybe me and millie will work out some vocal stuff or Jeth and Kaya can do some bass stuff. Everyone sort of splits off and then we come together when we’re actually rehearsing together and then it all becomes much more succinct.
 
B:
And you just let James crack on? Just let him do his stuff?
 
A:
Yeah he can just do whatever he wants a lot of the time.
 
B:
Do you ever find any tensions between you when it comes to writing stuff? It’s the classic Lennon-McCartney thing of songwriters within the group of butting heads.
 
J:
There definitely is but I think because we have five in the band it always works. Because if three want this and two people want that you just have to eat it.
 
A:
You deal with it, because if it is a three v two sometimes you’ll get what you want and sometimes you don’t get what you want but it doesn’t bring any… there’s no anger or anything behind it, it’s just like well everyone else doesn’t agree, it’s just as much their song as it is anybody’s. So it just that humbleness.
 
J:
Yeah I don’t think anyone’s, well at least from my perspective, when something gets brought to Oxford comma it belongs to Oxford Comma, it doesn’t belong to anybody else.
 
B:
Who’s the lyricist of the band?
 
A:
Mainly Millie, I mean we all chip in but a lot of the time it’s mainly millie and then I work with her. But there’s lyrics sprouting out of everyone but it is a big chunk Millie.
 
B:
You say that everyone has a bit of an input with lyrics do you think that helps with everybody’s connection to the music?
 
A:
Definitely but also as everyone’s musicians, their instrument is their pride. When Kaya has written a sick bassline, she wants people to know how sick that bassline is. And same with James on the drums. But it definitely helps in terms of yeah connecting to the music, or just having a hand in the writing process in any description. Somebody might come up with the lyrics but other people might be like “that idea is better that that idea” and then as soon as everybody’s involved it does just make it feel better don’t you think?
 
J:
Yeah, I think definitely with the lyrics stuff somebody might come up with a concept and then Millie expands that in a really beautiful way. She has that kind of direction. I don’t do too much lyrics stuff, and like wait what was the question again?
 
B:
How the lyrics help your connection to the music.
 
J:
Oh yeah. When I’m listening to music I don’t actually pay too much attention to the lyrics.
 
A:
He literally doesn’t listen to lyrics at all.
 
J:
It’s weird but I just don’t hear them! So yeah my connection to the music is all the sonic stuff that I’m putting in.
 
B:
All of those beautiful jangly chords around everything (Laughter)
 
A:
Also Jeth is great in terms of the lyric setting and stuff like that, he doesn’t care what’s being said…
 
J:
Yeah I care about the placement of the words and the placement of the syllables and the way that it sounds.
 
B:
I think that’s very important, it adds so much more to a song. You can be saying whatever you want but it’s how it feels when you’re listening to it.
 
A:
Yeah and that’s what Millie is the absolute best at. Honestly I’ll be sat there listening to her sing it and I’m like it doesn’t make any sense how that’s been stressed but it sounds so good. Like she is literally a genius at knowing where to put words to get across feeling, it’s actually nuts how good she is at that.
 
B:
We’ll come back to lyrics in a moment when we talk about the Oporto gig but first let’s speak about ‘Fake Fancy Shoes’, it’s your first single release. Congratulations! It’s an incredible song and I bet you’re all really happy with how it turned out.
 
How did the recording process go? Who’s in the room, who’s at the desk?
 
J:
For Fake Fancy Shoes, it’s changed now, but for this we got Nate Tozer-Loft to produce it. He was doing all of the recording. Me and Kaya are both on production so we were helping with how we want each thing to sound and mics and stuff. We were all just kind of working together but he was kind of in control.
Nate sent it to me to mix it and then we all kind of like… The notes were lengthy (laughter). I was mixing it but it was more like everyone was mixing it.
 
A:
We didn’t know who we wanted to mix it so we got loads of people to mix. We sent it out and asked people to give us a mix and then none of the band touched anything and got Holly, Millie’s girlfriend, to ping us through all the mixes with blank names. So we had no idea who mixed them and we listened to like eight different mixes. We all listened to them apart, some on cars, some on speakers and headphones whatever. And then we all whittled down and blind chose between two people and we chose Jethro!
 
B:
(To Jethro) I bet that felt great right?
 
J:
Yeah it did feel good (Laughter)
 
A:
We didn’t know it was him but that’s another example of a split decision. Like we whittled people down by going “okay three of us said we like this and two didn’t” and we ended up, without knowing who it was, with Jethro.
 
J:
It came down to like two people and then we were like, well Jethro is in the band so it’s just going to be easier so…
 
B:
Keep it in house, I like that.
 
The lyrics of Fake Fancy Shoes seem very personal and directed towards an individual. I’m guessing that Millie wrote the lyrics to this?
 
A:
Me and Millie, I’m guessing everybody was in the room.
 
J:
People definitely had something to say about it.
 
A:
We definitely all got in together but the large majority was me and Millie. Me and Millie are credited as the lyrics because we sort of came with the concept. That was quite an interesting lyric writing process actually because we were sort of whittling through the tune. We weren’t like “Fake Fancy Shoes” and then work off of that. We were working around with a tune and then we ended up with fake fancy shoes as a tag line and the main sort of section for the chorus. It all sort of clicked in. It was good because me and Millie worked off of shared experience. Because I’ve known Millie for so long, like I’ve known Millie for years, even before uni. In terms of us writing about things that are personal and stuff like that is so easy because we already know everything about each other. So you know, when you’re talking about things you’re not like “ooh I’m drawing off of this experience” because I already know and she already knows. So it makes it easier for us to sit together and write and be personal about stuff and not have to feel nervous or worried. And also she gets the luxury of being able to write whatever she wants and feelings and not have to sing it anyway.
 
J:
I’ve never thought of it like that!
 
A:
So she can put all the emotions in and everyone thinks it’s me anyway. So when it comes to that nervousness and stuff that a lot of musicians get when they’re writing really personal lyrics, somebody else is singing it.
 
B:
It’s like you never want to show your dad any demos because then he’ll know every thought and feeling you’ve ever had.
 
A:
Exactly that.
 
B:
You say you use shared experience in your lyric writing between you and Millie, but how do you use that experience to inform the lyrics that are coming out? What things and feelings are you focusing on when it comes to reflecting on things that you’ve experienced?
 
A:
It depends on the tune. We’ve started trying to write some less sad based tunes.
 
B:
It’s hard to do right? (Laughter)
 
A:
Yeah, drawing on any emotion you feel really strongly is really easy. I can’t speak for Millie on this but I know she’s an absolute wizard at expressing emotion in a lyrical setting. When I’m writing lyrics, or involved in a musical process, I think the ability to feel emotions so strongly is such a privilege and being able to actually sit there and have the time and opportunity of taking what I’m feeling and try and put that into words that are experiences that people all over the world have felt. Everybody has felt sad and felt all of these different ways so strongly and being able to try and take that emotion and use it for something that comes across to other people so that they can resonate with is such a privilege. It’s such a great thing to be able to sit there and be, especially with someone that I care about so much like me and Millie, when we have times and together as friends working through emotions and things like that together and bringing them out into a tune that you then get to play in front of a load of people with all your best mates in a band, it’s like…
 
B:
It can’t get much better than that can it
 
A:
No, exactly
 
B:
If I’ve researched correctly, you released fake fancy shoes independently?
 
A:
Uhh… yeah we did
 
B:
Obviously with the rise of social media and being able to pave your own way as an artist, being an independent artist is so much more achievable then it ever has been. Is being an independent band something that’s important to you? Is that something you really want to hold onto or are you looking for some kind of record deal or management in the future?
 
[Both Albert and Jethro chuckle to themselves]
 
J:
It depends what the deal is, it just depends what the deal is. That’s what it really is
 
A:
With fake fancy shoes we worked with launchpad which is a Leeds based organisation, funded by the arts council and you know they were a massive help. Claire who we work with was so helpful and they do a lot of stuff with pitching and different things to Spotify which as an independent artist you struggle to do. But we all want all the help we can get really, at the same time you’re wary of all different deals and as soon as you start getting people involved or you start getting to a point where people are wanting to be involved, you know you’ve just got to be wary of… I know when I sit in a room with the other four members of Oxford comma that I know exactly what they all want. Whereas you don’t know that with other people but we have moved fake fancy shoes over, we’re working with AWAL now so we have moved fake fancy shoes over to be with the AWAL system and when we release from now on it will be with the AWAL system so there is that now sort of link to potentially having other people involved with the tunes. But we had all those conversations with the A&R reps and talking with each other about all of the opportunities and the pros and the cons of being involved with people in that sense. I mean I’m really excited about it and I think we all are. It’s a good group to be involved in, you hear lots of horror stories about lots of different labels and things but with AWAL it feels like a unique experience, we feel very lucky to be involved in that.
 
B:
I’d like to speak a little bit about social media, obviously I saw the Mk.gee TikTok went slightly viral right?
 
J:
MEGA VIRAL (Laughter)
 
B:
I think it was the dance moves jethro
 
A:
It was, it was the leg
 
J:
I broke my ankle for that TikTok
 
B:
I’m just wondering what your opinions are on TikTok and short form content in the music industry are, do you think it’s good support? Do you think it’s a good way for a musician to break out or do you think it’s saturating the field too much?
 
J:
I have such mixed opinions on this
 
A:
I think we struggle with that you know?
 
J:
Yeah big time, but I don’t know if that’s a bad thing
 
A:
I think it’s pretty evenly split as both because everyone even the biggest artists in the world are now expected to be content creators. And that takes away from being an artist and we want to spend time making music not sixty seconds of TikTok, and making sure it’s monetised. As soon as you start having to create content that conforms to certain guidelines you lose that ability to express yourself as a creative individual and essentially every single artist in the world is making the same content. You lose that individuality.
 
B:
Well that’s what gets the numbers isn’t it? Doing what everyone else is doing.
 
A:
I mean that’s always happened hasn’t it? Musicians are always making music that suits what people want to listen to but at least they’re making music. At the same time, we know and everybody knows how hard it is to break into the industry. Whereas something like TikTok or Instagram reels or whatever is allowing for the world to very easily see people that Ould never have been seen otherwise and there is some insane talent out there, like unbelievable talent that would never ever have made it anywhere without TikTok. This is just an example but there’s a guy called Joshua Slone in the US, just this guy posting his songs on TikTok and then now he’s massive and it’s just simply because everyone heard him. No one would’ve heard this guy in the middle of nowhere singing these tunes, ever if it wasn’t for the fact that he put it on social media and people had seen it or Lizzy McAlpine, same thing. All these people who are so unbelievably talented have only been able to have been seen because of social media so it has major pros and also has major major cons.
 
J:
I just don’t know how I feel about it, it’s just such a weird thing. I feel like if you’re an independent artist, if you do get a lot of views and a lot of followers on TikTok it does come at a cost because the amount of time and effort you have to put into it is insane. And if you don’t have any help with that, I feel like it’s like you’re either making music or you’re a TikToker. And it’s almost impossible to be both because both require so much time and so much effort with very little return in terms of money.
 
A:
And we say that we’ve had that problem for ages, we have so much to do at all times because you don’t have anyone helping you. We’re sending all the emails, we’re doing literally everything, we’re writing all the music, we’re in house recording, producing all the music, doing everything like that. And also trying to create all this content to then post all this content while, especially you’re gearing up for a new release and you’re like we’ve got so much to do to get this song out. And at the same time we’ve got to write and record fourty thousand million hours of social media content for about seven likes.
 
B:
It never feels, like you say, that there’s much of a return on stuff like that.
 
J:
Yeah, especially at the start. What, you have to have a thousand followers before you can even make a singular penny off of your things.
We managed to get listened to by somebody who’s apart of AWAL and they wanted us to release our next thing through their lowest tier of like, thing. And with fake fancy shoes that we barely promoted, just because of the way that the spotify algorithm works… what, you [Albert] said we had sixty percent of our plays from Spotify auto plays essentially. 
A:
People just like music that sounds like us
 
J:
Because if it gets listened to twice, if it gets listened to for a certain amount of time, if it gets added to a playlist, all of these things go into the Spotify algorithm. So if your song is good it might find the right people. It’s had seventeen thousand views and one of those people is somebody important and that’s sometimes all you need. If you do make good music, you don’t need social media. We barely posted about it.
 
A:
We didn’t really post about it and it organically grew. We’re super proud of the tune, whether or not we think it’s any good is irrelevant, but people are listening, people have listened to it and that’s what matters. And we really should’ve done more social media for it to be honest.
 
J:
Yeah one hundred percent
 
(Laughter)
 
A:
But at the same time, at first it was pretty slow. It was good and it went really well, like a really good start and then literally out of nowhere we got like twelve thousand streams in like a month and before that it was a really slow sort of trickle.
 
J:
I think there’s a lot of, like the only way to make it in the music industry right now is through social media and through TikTok and I don’t believe it. If I’m looking at all my favourite artists who are releasing music right now, who aren’t super big, I’ve never seen a TikTok from them, none of them. So there’s obviously more to it.
 
A:
And at the same time, you might have twenty thousand followers on TikTok and they might all be in Latvia. You can have twenty thousand TikTok followers or you could have two hundred thousand TikTok followers and you could sell five tickets in Leeds.
 
J:
Yeah I’ve heard stories of people with tens of thousands of TikTok followers and their label is like “we’re going on a tour” and it’s like nobody’s coming, nobody’s there, nobody cares. 
 
A:
We’re trying to build up from Leeds, like we love Leeds and the scene that’s in Leeds. Like when we sold that Oporto show out, being able to be like people want to come watch us in Leeds, that’s mega. I’d way rather want to play to one hundred and twenty people than post a video to five thousand you know?
 
B:
They’re just numbers on a screen at the end of the day, it doesn’t equate to people in a room.
 
A:
Exactly.
 
J:
Exactly.
 
B:
You lead me on very nicely to your Oporto gig. How does it feel to be in a position now to be headlining gigs and having a full set of original music that you have made yourselves?
 
J:
That does feel good.
 
A:
Yeah it feels great.
 
J:
You know when we finished that gig I was like “Oh my god we might actually be not bad”.
 
A:
It is that. Rolling off what Jethro said, that you’ve got that constant feeling of sort of imposter syndrome essentially being like “what are we actually doing”.
 
B:
You said that on the night. You said out to everyone that it didn’t feel real to be here and can’t believe how many people turned up for it.
 
A:
Exactly and when we finished that we were all like (sighs of relief). It was second to none feeling, especially because we sold out like two weeks in advance or whatever it was. Any other gig we’ve ever played, whether it was support gig or we did a headline ages ago in December sometime and even on the day of the gig you’re trying to find people to come and stuff like that. Whereas being able to be like, we just sort of sat back, we literally sat back and we were like wow people are actually buying tickets for this and people are coming! My worry on the day was that it was like a joke, like people had bought all the tickets out and they weren’t going to come. But being able to be there with a lot of people we knew but genuinely half the people there we had no idea who they were. We had no idea who they were or we knew of them but not enough to be like “ahh, it’s your pal”. People on their own and of their own accord buying tickets to come and watch us.
 
J:
Especially with the merch, because we had a bit of merch afterwards, and we… how many t-shirts did we sell?
 
A:
Genuinely I was like, well we’ll buy like eight I’m sure my mum will buy one.
 
J:
And genuinely everyone in the queue, I didn’t know anyone.
 
A:
I bought extra t-shirts for the band, and I sold them too! I was like I’m going to have to get rid of all of these. Someone was like, I’ve got a small and I was like I’ve only got a double XL, I’ve got one double XL and they were like ‘yeah I’ll have that, I’ll have it don’t worry about it’ and I’m like ‘okay fine!’ which was great. And people coming up to us afterwards like ‘we had no idea what to expect and we can’t wait to see you again’. Hopefully that night really solidified bringing new people into like…
 
J:
That was the first time I’ve looked out and been like ‘I actually don’t recognise some people’. It’s always just your friends and your family and stuff.
 
A:
Like our first gig that we did with Jeth was at Santiago bar and I think we played to like nine people.
 
J:
It could’ve been less than that
 
A:
And it was like Jethro’s girlfriend, my girlfriend, one of Jethro’s mates and then the family and friends of the other band (laughter). To then go on and see out oporto which is sick as well because it’s a sick venue!
 
B:
It is a sick venue, I think that was the first gig that I had seen at Oporto actually. Really quite a big fan of…
 
A:
Well thanks for coming along!
 
B;
Of course, of course
What are both of your favourite songs in the set right now?
 
A:
In the Oporto set? Because we’ve changed it a little bit
 
J:
Have we added a new one?
 
A:
No maybe not, maybe I’m bugging. Ooh I don’t know, I don’t know because I like them all for different reasons.
 
J:
In terms of what, if I was playing or if I was in the audience watching it?
 
B:
You’re at home with your headphones on, you’ve got the whole set as an album, which one are you picking?
 
A:
If I’m listening to it, mine’s chameleon because it’s got Millie’s voice on it and she sounds so great.
 
J:
Yeah, I would say chameleon
 
A:
Yeah there’s a tune called called which Millie sings, like she starts out. That’s the only one in the set where she like has a full section but the writing on that, the way that the tune and stuff goes is just like (sighs in disbelief). I want to listen to that now, now that you’ve said that somebody get me some headphones.
 
B:
Put it on, put it on! Sneak peak (Laughter)
I’m a big fan of your song narcissist, that really caught my ear that night.
 
A:
Ah, nice!
 
J:
It’s coming out!
 
A:
Hey that’s so good because that’s literally the next tune that’s coming out.
 
J:
Three weeks is it now?
 
A:
It’s so crazy that you said that.
 
B:
I’m a really big fan of that.
 
A:
This feels planned! You’ve really done your research (laughter)
 
B:
In a similar tone to fake fancy shoes, it feels very personal. It feels lyrically so close to home, and again I was just wondering what your inspirations were behind that song?
 
A:
It was literally the first tune we wrote. That was the first post Jethro tune we wrote.
 
B:
How early into it?
 
A:
Like literally the first thing we did.
 
J:
I remember going into Millie’s room and she was like ‘I’ve got this chord progression but it’s the exact same as this other song and I didn’t realise’. And then I was like okay let’s put a few more chords in here and then she had a verse for it, and then came up with a chorus melody and then we brought it to the band and it just happened.
 
A:
That was great, because in terms of lyrical content that felt super swift. We sort of knocked that one out, and then we had to write a load of songs because we had a gig in December and this was in September and we wanted to write a load of tunes and ‘Narcissist’ literally flew off the bat and then the rest sort of came in afterwards. I have really fond memories of the origins of that tune because it was like the first time being sat in the band exploring music and being like ‘this is what I’m here for’, being like this is what this is about and I’ll never forget that
 
J:
I remember we had a rehearsal and we were just playing through it, I don’t think we had lyrics yet but then like two days later we came and the whole song was done.
 
A:
Me and Millie did some stuff for that and again picked brains. I think Kaya would’ve been involved quite a bit, in terms of like picking the brains because me Millie and Kaya lived together at the time so being able to be like ‘what do you think of this?’ just like shouting into the other rooms and stuff. I love that tune, Millie’s guitar tone is good on that.
 
B:
Millie’s guitar tone throughout the whole set, I have to say, I said it to her afterwards is brilliant.
 
A:
Millie and Jeth did a lot of work on tones.
 
J:
Yeah we do spend a lot of time on tones. I remember before the Oporto gig, maybe like five hours we were just sat together in my room plugged into my speakers just like tweaking stuff for ages.
 
A:
Because it’s all amp-less!
 
J:
Yeah you can do an infinite amount of tweaks, it’s not like this is my set up and I’ve got a few different things – with the new digital stuff, you know it has its pros and cons but the pros are it’s infinite. There’s infinite possibilities.
 
A:
Live, the pros are amazing.
 
B:
Where did you come up with the idea? What was the thought process behind going digital and not using amps?
 
A:
For narcissist or for amps?
 
B:
For your sets
 
A:
Well you [Jethro] just had one
 
J:
I had one because it was like 350, 400 quid and if I wanted to get all the pedals I want it would cost like four million pounds. So I was just like, I might as well just get this to start with and I can always add, well I have added an actual pedal which I really like. I think nowadays a combination is really nice and it’s nice just to be like ‘this is my sound, I know it’s going to sound like this’ it’s not like ‘ooh I can’t remember what the hell I’ve done’.
 
A:
But even initially Jeth had the line six and then Millie and Kaya were building pedal boards. Like they both were building pedal boards for their own sound and you know it was nice but then after we played with Jeth for like four/five months everyone just went ‘fuck that, I’m getting a line six’ because like Jeth said the possibilities are so unmatched.
 
B:
So much more freedom
 
A:
And it’s so nice not taking… If you’re the headline band, we do not have to take amps. We don’t take amps anywhere.
 
J:
That was also a big part of it. It’s cheaper, it’s easier.
 
A:
We literally need three DI boxes
 
B:
That must be really handy, especially for the Bristol gig you did.
 
A:
But also you’ve been to the go and you’ve heard the sound and that’s coming out of DI
 
B:
That’s crazy, I’ll be honest until you just mentioned it now, I didn’t even notice.
 
A: Like no amps at all, it’s all running through the desk and out the monitors.
 
B:
That’s incredible, that’s so cool.
 
J:
But you do run into… You do have the issue of, I don’t think we have this issue but the biggest issue with it is that you don’t have your sound, you don’t have a unique sound. Because there’s infinite possibilities, it’s not like ‘this is the reverb, that’s my sound’. And then as soon as you hear that reverb you’re like ‘oh I recognise that’. So you kind of have to find the things that you like in there and then work with that rather than start fresh with each song. Or else you’ll just start sounding like everything and nothing.
 
A;
But it’s also great in terms of being in different rooms. We work with some really amazing sound engineers but then sometimes you’re playing in a metal box and there’s nothing you can do. If you’re mic’ing an amp in comparison to the stuff that’s coming out of the line six, Jeth can EQ in real time. EQ horrible notes out of stuff and whatever, change things up for the sound to fit the room.
 
B:
I think that’s brilliant and I think it’s a really good choice and I can’t say I know of many bands, especially locally that are doing that. I think that sets you apart really nicely.
The Oporto gig, it was put on by Swift Half events? Where did that partnership come from?
 
A:
Honestly George, this guy called George, George Burton and he literally just pinged us an email. He was like ‘hey I’ve heard fake fancy shoes and I think it’s really great, how’d you feel about doing a gig?’, he’s like based in London but he does things with a lot of different people that we already know of and we were just like yeah absolutely.
 
J:
Yeah absolutely
 
A:
We were like ‘we’re looking for a headline gig, we want to play Oporto’, I was trying to book us for Oporto for ages. Oh my days, I was trying to do it, I was trying to get us a headline at Oporto and it was like drawing blood from the stone. I literally couldn’t get anything out of them. And I was like okay fine, I like this guy, George is a great guy – have these conversations and see if you can get us Oporto. And literally a day later, he’s like yeah here’s the dates. It was nuts. And he was a massive help, like so much. In terms of that gig, he sorted of floated the idea of sort of sourcing us some support acts but at the same time we were like we think it would be good for us to get some Leeds based people in to sell some tickets but honestly, I think we would’ve been fine without. We sold a large amount of tickets, well obviously sold out but at the same time it was like he was great in terms of doing everything but we got to choose what was being done. We’re working with George again, we’ll work with him for a s long as it suits both of us because he’s a great guy. From that gig, so much has opened up for us and a lot of that is down to what George did so yeah, he’s a great guy and we’re very grateful for that.
 
J:
I think a big part of why we sold out is because of the way he set up the tickets. He was like ‘we’re doing it this way, this is the way I know that works’.
 
A:
And it did, it literally worked.
 
B:
Okay, I’d like to speak a bit about the university. Obviously we’re coming towards the end now, can you believe it? It’s disappeared. How has the uni helped each of you to achieve your goals musically and do you think there is any way that the uni could have supported you more? They’re not going to hear about this so don’t worry (Laughs)
 
A:
I mean they put us together essentially. I mean they didn’t but the fact that we’re here together is the only reason that any of this happened. And at the same time, the facilities here are the reason that we have been able to do anything. We’re leaving uni and ninety nine percent of musicians are stressed, they’re like wow I’m losing all the… Whereas I think we have been hermits for the last two years, we have done nothing but music in any free second of our entire lives and it means that when we leave this place we are in such good stead to…
 
J:
Yeah we do have a lot of material.
 
A:
We have got material recorded, like stuff that would cost us so much money to do independently, we have done already to a great standard. And at the same time, the uni has given us lots of opportunities and we’ve met lots of people through the uni and different things like that but the main thing is that it gave us the platform to work off of. I think we have a lot of stress in terms of assignments in comparison to trying to be working musicians. There’s things that, the way that any uni course is structured goes against being a musician in real life. But the tutors are on our side with that, they’re like ‘we completely agree with you, we know this is why this is’ and you know they’re also saying this is crazy.
 
J:
But that is going to change next year, unfortunately for us.
 
A:
It is going to change, yeah. For everybody else it’s grand but for our year…
 
J:
We’ve had big issues, well not big issues, but we’ve had…
 
A:
Pretty big issues
 
J:
Fairly big issues (Laughter). Of having like portfolio’s clashing and you can’t have… what’s the word for copying?
 
B:
Plagiarism.
 
A:
Yeah but it’s not plagiarism because you’re all writing it.
 
J:
Yeah we’ve had issues with plagiarism stuff and it’s like okay now we all need to do separate things. We’ve got an hour set, you’ve heard it, and for our exam we still need like four more songs. Because of overlapping.
 
A:
It’s like the expectation is that you’re in seventeen different projects and the problem with that is everything they’re teaching us is that it’s a really good idea to be really succinct and work really hard towards a goal, and we’ve got five people in one room who want to do everything in the right way AND we’re working hard at it and they’re going ‘yeah you need another sixteen projects to fit the criteria’. The idea that the uni gives is that you’re here to experience what it is like and grow to become a real musician, and to set you up but the industry. And at the same time, sure, portfolio careers, being involved in loads of different stuff but you wouldn’t get penalised for focusing on a big project if that was your main thing. So that’s our problem but all the tutors and stuff that are involved are like ‘honestly, we also agree with you and we think this is not how it should be’.
 
J:
It’s because they’re attached to the Hull thing [university]. That’s just their law, that’s just their rules, and you just can’t do anything. But now, next year, none of that will be an issue.
 
A:
Yeah when they can like independently credit degrees. Essentially we’re sending off our courses and marking to a whole different place that isn’t even involved in music.
 
J:
Having academic rules for music just doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t work. Also carrying on from that question, because I’m on production, I feel like they’ve definitely taught me a lot of things. Especially at the start, especially in the one to one lessons. But this year not so much, this year is more like here’s all the stuff, do what you want, figure it out. It’s just like, you already know what to do. But I think that something they definitely missed is the boring admin stuff of it, like contracts. Contracts of artists, how you should set that up, how that should look, should you do that before or should you do that during?And if you’re working with someone for a long time like starting a studio or something, are you going to be a company? Like how are you paying taxes? It’s like all of these kinds of things, nothing.
 
A:
Because we’re thinking the same for the band, we’re in conversations with our lawyers and stuff like that about literally what do we do? Do we set up a limited company? Do we make the band a partnership? Because you start invoicing people and you need to have a business account and you need to do all of this sort of stuff. And you’re like well no one has ever taught us how to do that and obviously we’re in a really lucky position with AWAL we get a lawyer. So we can speak to them.
 
B:
That’s quite handy!
 
A:
But until you have those conversations, we’re a band meetings like ‘I’ve been researching for hours how to do all of this and I know how to do it but I still don’t know what the right options are’. Because we don’t know! We’re all going to be working to keep this going, if we were self employed and the band was self sustaining then it would be way easier. But it’s not and it won’t be forever. Well it might be one day, you never know. When we sell a gazillion t-shirts (Laughter).
 
B:
The t-shirt sales seem to be going quite well by the sound of things!
 
A:
Yeah, I need to make some more.
 
B:
If you could start uni from the very beginning, is there anything that you guys would have done differently in the way you got started? Probably get Jethro in a lot earlier.
 
(Laughter)
 
A:
Nah I don’t know, I think the band needed pre-Jethro for Jethro to work. We had the experience before hand and we worked through that and we played gigs and we found out  what it was like to be involved in a band and the frustrations that come with being involved in a band. And then we got Jethro involved and it was like ‘Let’s actually fucking kick on now’. In terms of uni, I think I’d have gone to more uni stuff. I think I’d have tried to make lots more connection way quicker. I think personally I got a bit content with my small circle and I think that only half way through second year, into third year, that I just went ‘I’m going to get involved with everybody’. I wish that I had done that but I don’t really have any regrets in terms of it because it’s worked out in a great way. In terms of being like, I’m meeting all of these really cool people now and I’m like ‘yeah we’ve got two months and then you’re moving back to bloody Hertfordshire or something’. Whereas we could have had three years of a prosperous relationship.
 
J:
I would definitely say, for me personally, it would be organisationally I feel like I could have got so much more done in first and second year. Because on the production side, if I was just a lot more organised. But you know, it’s hard.
 
A:
And you’re trying to have fun as well.
 
J:
And only this year I feel like I’m… I always had that thing of, as every musician does, that I’m not maximising my musical output as much as I can be. And that always kind of lingers over you. But I feel like now, I’m finally doing as much as I can.
 
B:
Just before we wrap up, as I realise we’re running out of time, I’d like to talk to you about the future. Obviously we’ve just had the conversation of what sort of comes next but what can we expect to see from the band? What projects do you have lined up? Obviously Narcissus, that’s great.
 
A:
Yeah we’ve got Narcissus which is the first single of a four track EP. Narcissus is coming out on the fifteenth of May I think?
 
B:
Quite soon then!
 
A:
Yeah we sent it off and it’s all being AWAL’d [shrugs as if he doesn’t understand what that entails]. There’ll be two singles and then the EP. It’s sort of going to go single, single, EP and it’s all going to be in pretty quick succession. All fully produced and mixed between Kaya and Jethro and they’re all being mastered by…
 
J:
Katie Daveney. Who did a lecture.
 
A:
Katie Daveney. And the masters are amazing. But they’ll be coming out. We’ve got a completely unannounced headline gig that’s going to be in Leeds but it’s in October. We booked that in a while ago because we sort of were having those sort of conversations about having as much exclusivity within an area as possible. Maybe something will come up but at the same time we’re two hopefully well sold shows in a year rather than six or seven. Sort of fairly sold shows, we want to get to the point where people are like ‘well this is the one time we’re going to be able to see them, we have to go and see them’ rather than being like ‘oh we can see them anytime, we’ll skip that’.
 
B:
Okay just my last question, where do you guys see yourselves in five years time? Or where do you see the band in five years time? What do you hope to have achieved by then?
 
A:
Probably the world’s biggest artist of all time (Laughter). No, hopefully doing what we’re doing, getting along hopefully making music together, living, touring hopefully.
 
J:
In five years time, I hope that I’m making the majority of my money from music.
 
A:
I just want to play Ashton Gate, I want to play in Bristol city stadium. But I feel like that’s a twenty year plan. But yeah, that’s with five years making music.
 
B:
Well thank you both very much for doing this, I really appreciate it.
 

Full audio recording of the interview