ban23083442 SHR6E038P~002 Journalism Portfolio

Ah, that’s really interesting… Okay… Ah God, uhm. So… The- hehe. Your drawing reminds me a lot of uh, like the artwork that I’ve seen on your Spotify for your album covers [L laughs]. Is that any way like, y’know, like, related?

I mean yeah, I think… I don’t think there’s anything there that’s, like, by me – but it’s like stuff that I really like? So that makes sense, like it’s my… There’s… My mom’s made some of it, and then my friends made one of it. And then, my new song is – obviously that’s not like, drawing or paint- that’s just um… What’s it called when you like… stick different pictures on top-

Collage?

Yeahyeah it’s a collage.

That’s really sick, um. Is there a- It must be quite nice for your like friends and family to be sort of like, immortalised in your art [L: laughs]. Like what uh- Is there any – is that significant to you?

Yeah I think… I think like… It feels really funny to me to think of it as like immortalised because… It’s just gonna be around for as long as we’re around kind of. I don’t really… Um, I really love having my friends and family involved with what I do. But not specifically because of like… I don’t know, I don’t think about it as like I’m immortalising them, it’s more of like a… I don’t really know [A: like an homage?] maybe! In a way. Yeah, kind of, and… I just think that, y’know, I wanna express the things that matter to me and if I can then… include all these people and like, showcase all these amazing people in my life then that’s… y’know?

Yeah, I understand! So-

It’s part of just giving, being, like. Like if I wanna give, like if I wanna… express all the lovely things in my life then it’s part of doing that, it’s involving those people.

Yeah! Uh, I’ve noticed as well because, on your Spotify, um, your new single that’s just come out uh… There’s like twenty-one or something credits on that? [L: laughs] With different musicians and things? [L: yeaah] How-how was that to work with so many people?

Uhh it was very time-consuming! [Laughs]. It’s really fun but, it’s like, yeah it just it- it’s hard to get, like everything done and stuff? But I’m very lucky that like I have a co-producer as well? Well, I guess with this song, it- I mean it yeah it- it’s me and my friend, George, Sleep Portrait, we– we produce together and there’s, like, em. And then, with this one as well there was another, there was an engineer on one of the songs. Em, no, not one of the songs sorry, one of the recordings that we did? Uh, one of the recording sessions I had a different engineer and then, em, and then we also worked with another producer who like helped a bit with with the arrangement and who, em, mastered it. And he’s called Nate. Yeah.

Hm! do you find it, like… Do you think that they have an influence on your style would you say? Like how is it, does it, do- do you feel like it’s… a very personal sort of like production when you’re collaborating with people so closely?

Em, I think- I think definitely, like… I mean they’ll have loads of influence. I think especially, like, especially George because he does so much of like the… the mixing and he’s so involved with the production, it’s very much like… before I do stuff I talk to him about it? And, it’s like… Yeah, so he’s definitely very like… yeah affects all of it quite a lot. And then in general with songs, like, em, I really like to.. I write stuff for the instrumentalists, more or less… It’s kind of different from song to song how much of what they’re playing I’ve actually planned? Sometimes I just want them to impovise. So obviously that really makes it their own as well if, yeah ‘cuz, yeah, I don’t know.

That’s really sweet! Is it like, when you write music do you want it to be a sort of like… Like what’s your aim when you write music? Is it to be like a personal expression like, or do you want to showcase… humanity, or is there a greater picture in mind when you try and like, write music?

I think it’s both. I think it’s very much like… making sense of things, uh with like songwriting – making sense of whatever’s going on. And expressing that, expressing feelings and all that? Um and complexities and all that stuff. And then… yeah and then it’s also that like I want it to be like a. I want it to be like a positive like… like, well it’s weird to say community and stuff ‘cuz I’m very- I’m a very small artist, but [laughs]. But y’know like I want it to be. I want it to be just loads of positive things, like I want anyone to feel comfortable and understood and all that like I don’t want- I want it to be like a space that’s not judgemental and it, yeah, like you said, like the human stuff.

[[he wants his music to be a safe space for human emotion – for people to feel comfortable and understood without judgement]]

Yeah, that’s really sweet. As well because I’ve noticed that… jumping right in the deep end really early [both laughing]. I’ve noticed like, on your TikTok and on Instagram you’ve been quite open about what your songs are about? And quite frank about that. [L: yeah?]. I know that with Settling you’ve mentioned that – by the way, uh, congratulations on the release! [L: laughs] which was literally last night, this morning? [L: Thank you] You’re welcome with that. Uh, but yeah, you’ve said that… you’ve been quite open about how its… being about mental health, and like dissociation, and uh… I was wondering um, how do you feel about being so open with that and putting it out there?

(Thoughtfully) Erm… I don’t really mind. I think like sometimes it’s a little bit like “[scared noise] do I really wanna say this?” but then I feel like… I feel like a lot of people say shit like that, if you know what I mean? Like, I don’t know, I feel like I’m around so many people who are so open about it that I kind of forget that… to some people that’s like a stigmatised thing?

Yeah. You uh. Like I’ve seen on like a poster or something that you- that you’ve described your music as “sad queer indie folk music” [L: laughs]. This is very frank, uh yeah, and it’s sort of like um… being open with your emotions and things, uh. You said that you’re inspired by artists like Sufjan Stevens, Pheobe Bridgers, and that music is obviously very much- I mean I see a parallel there between like, working through emotions… Would you say that that’s accurate? That it’s similar?

Yeah! I think often with like when I compare it to Sufjan Stevens and stuff it is obviously a bit about like- just that like, being very honest about stuff? But it’s also- with him it’s a lot about his production style… Like I think a lot of people when they think about him, they think about his album ‘Carrie and Lowell,’ or like the song ‘Mystery of Love’ – the one that’s in Call Me By Your Name. But when I say that, it’s more about the ‘Illinoise’ album and the (well, Illinois, Illinoise, whatever you wanna say), and ‘Age of Adz.’ ‘Cuz it’s not… that one is a bit- cuz that one is the, y’know, like folktronica bit, I guess. So with him it’s a lot more about like the production and instrumentation and stuff… And yeah Phoebe Bridgers is definitely more about the lyric aspect of stuff.

That reminds me, your music- you describe it as folktronica – what does folktronica mean to you would you say?

Um… I think folktronica means like. I guess it is just like, it’s the feeling of folk and contemporary folk, like it has a lot of those elements? But then there’s just like. Then you just have loads of effects and just… weird shit going on basically [laughs]. I least that’s what I do at least.

I personally think that the way that you do that in music, like the… when the distortion or the electronics come in, personally I interpret that as a sort of like chaos, and sort of like- I understand- my understanding of it is that it’s that that captures the sort of… distress and like intense emotions. Is that the sort of thing you were going for?

Yeah definitely, I think it definitely like depends, ‘cuz I think… in some songs it is definitely the chaos thing, like I do wanna make the chaos feeling? But I think just also just really love the sound of distortion? Like it gives me a feeling nothing else does. Like it like fits in my brain in a really good way.

That’s really sick, are there any other effects that you really like?

[Excitedly] Oh there’s so much cool stuff – I really love, like, modulated delays and reverbs, where you just have so much stuff – and then I love fucking around with time? Uh, can I swear?

Yeah? This is Pitchfork! [Both laugh].

Yeah, um… yeah no uhm… What was I saying? I’m sorry

Modulated delay and reverb-

Yeyeyeah – that stuff and then like also time effects. I just wanna do as much weird stuff as possible, like I really love… And it’s like, it’s in a way where it’s like. I really like. It’s weird because of the process rather than the results sometimes? Because I do a lot of like, found sound stuff. And so- [A: what’s that?] It’s like I record… Like I get loads of recordings of just like… anything outside or inside, like I can just record the, like… clink of the tea? [tapping the edge of the teacup with a spoon]. And then I sample it and I do stuff to it? And I turn it into other stuff- and I really like being able to make like… keyboard instruments like synths and stuff… out of just random stuff? Like, what’s it- a… I recorded recently… It was either like, it was either like, those like tyres that are like, on playgrounds and stuff? That are in the earth- it was either the sound of the- I think it was the inside sound of like, if you stick a microphone into the inside of the wheel, and then you sample that. Like, well that’s what I’ve done is, I tried that. I recorded in there because it had- it was like any sound that was from the outside was just resonating over and over inside of that? And so it just had this huge soundscape. And I made so many different sound with it, it was really fun. And I got something that kinda sounded like uh, like an omnichord? Which is really fun ‘cuz… Like I, I’m such a huge fan of omnichords but they’re just too expensive [laughing].

What is it you like about them?

[Smiling] I just like the sound of them, really! And I really like that, like yeah, the just like, electronic instrument that you can hold, kinda thing.

Yeah yeah, oh that’s really interesting. Would you- do you have like a favourite sample that you’ve ever done? Other than the rubber tyre?

I think a lot of the time I forget where my samples come from? Because I just, I’ve got a pretty poor memory so I’ll just do loads of stuff and then, when I show people they’re like ‘whoah what’s that?’ and I d-… have no idea [laughs]. Or sometimes I’ll forget if it’s even a sample or if it’s a synth I programmed… So I don’t know if I have any favourites, sorry [laughing]. I think definitely that one because I can actually remember it, like I think that made an impression on me. I really like that one, yeah.

Yeah. I also noticed in Settling, one of the most striking details I would say is the use of like, samples of voices and like uh, I can’t really tell what it is sometimes but it sort of just sounds like old, family footage and things? [L hums]. Is that also part of that approach?

I think definitely yeah. Like… [sarcastically] ‘everything is music’ and all that stuff y’know like? Yeah, um. Yeah those sounds are uh. They’re just a bunch of like, just- it’s mostly just like stuff I’ve filmed on my phone, and then… I just like put them into the song? To just get loads of voices of people doing stuff and having fun and all that.

What was the intention behind that in Settling would you say?

[Laughing] … I don’t remember? [Laughs]. No, I think it was just like, basically like we had… ‘cuz in the song, it’s a very like straightforward rhythm, it doesn’t really change much- like all of it the chords and rhythm and everything- um, and then, me and George were like pretty much getting close to finish it but we just felt like, it just felt like something was kinda like, there could be something more? And then I started coming up with… ‘cuz in that same area with all of those voices, there are like, there’s loads of instruments playing arpeggios? And we didn’t have that at the start, but when I started having like, feeling like ‘oh I want like a clarinet or a flute doing these,’ I um – yeah I um… Sorry I keep losing my thoughts… Yeah I started having that idea, and then I kept like… And at this point, ‘cuz we, we start the project on my computer – ‘cuz I’m in charge of the first bit of the progress up until we get to the point where it’s like pretty much ready for mix, then I send it to George, who puts it in his ‘cuz I work in Logic and he works in Ableton – so, we’d already gotten to the point where it was on his computer, meaning like, we’re at the end of the process. But I just made him, like, more and more like, more and more space for that thing in the middle- I was like ‘oh I want this’ and then I was like ‘oh give me a little bit more’ and then it turned into like this long section… And then I just thought like, ‘ooh I could have like… I could layer this a bit, like- I wanted it to kind of feel like, I think part of it was that I, like I started it with this uh sample that’s like… It’s a sample of me standing in a boat, and then, and then one of my friends says like ‘oh you’re gonna fall over,’ and then I said ‘I wont! I’ll be careful,’ but then there’s like a sound that, it sounds like I’ve fallen in the water but I haven’t? So I started with that sample and I just cut it, just when that happens? And then that’s the start of that section, and the intention, yeah you asked me about the intention! The intention is… that it’s kinda like I’m talking about all these mental health stuff, things, and then… And then I’m like- and then that sample comes on, I fall in the water, and then it’s just. Alone. It’s just like the clarinet starts just completely alone and then there’s like… kazoo [laughs] that’s like really distorted coming in, and then. And then it’s like, yeah, and then all the voices start building, and layering with the instruments. And the intention is, yeah like, [in a silly voice] ‘falling into the deep-end.’ And then… slowly getting back in, kind of. And to like- yeah to bridge into like – I just knew- It was so hard to figure out what I wanted with this song- it’s like the hardest song I’ve ever, like, worked on. And I’m so happy with how we ended up with it? And I just wanted to… I just wanted it to be really big at the end. So, everything’s like… We have like, so many EQs and like, all this stuff at the start where it’s like. We wanted to- [laughs] it’s a hard balance to make but we basically wanted it to be like a little bit closed at the start, so that it can open up super wide at the end. Cuz that’s where we have all of the layers but we also wanted then to also be the higher frequencies coming back in all of this stuff. So it’s like, having it like, we want the song to sound good at the start as well [laughs], but we want there to be a significant enough change at the end for it to just completely open up.

That’s really interesting, what do you mean by closed and- is that like a technical term, closed and open?

[Smiling] Eh definitely not. [Both laugh]. I just mean like… Yeah, I just mean like… Yeah, I don’t know, it’s when everything comes in at the end, it’s just like, I just wanted it to be huge, and I mean that as in open up where it’s like, you’ve been underwater and like, the frequency range is very- like a lot smaller, and before that as well it was small but not, not as small. And then it, I mean like the frequency opens up as in I’ve pressed the frequencies down on both sides, but especially the top. And then I’m removing that restraint in order for it to, yeah, like, play freely I guess.

That’s so interesting! There’s so much detail and thought that’s gone into it that, well, I don’t know much about production, [both laugh]. But yeah ‘cuz you, you’ve studied production, so would you say that that’s like, been a very big influence on the way that you approach writing music?

Uh, what like, knowing about production?

Yeah, like, how much would you say that’s like- this is a really bad question [laughs]

No it’s all good!

But like, you must have like, a lot of knowledge, like how do you feel, I don’t know what I’m trying to ask. Production, though [laughs].

What like, if it, if it affects like, my song- the songwriting aspect?

Yeah

Yeah, I mean I would say so, ‘cuz I think… I think a lot of the time like I’ll have an idea of how I want something to be produced as I’m writing the song, and that obviously affects it. And then I think sometimes, like, not this EP but the next one, there’s a lot of songs that are written while producing- like written more like in the DAW rather than like written on guitar and piano and then moved into production… Um, yeah, so it’s… yeah definitely, definitely affects things, I think… I think so many… ways of songwriting now, like. Yeah, it helps to make everything different and not make me bored, I’m really- right now I’m quite bored of making songs on guitar I don’t wanna do it anymore \[laughing\]. I wanna do other shit.

What’s your like, favourite, like songwriting process then?

I think it changes based on like, new and shiny [laughs]. Like right now I love banjo ‘cuz I’ve just learnt it – I’ve just gotten a banjo and I’ve just started writing songs on it.

Oh that’s interesting

Yeah! And it’s just, I really love the instrument and it’s just… easier to play around when you don’t automatically fall into progressions that you know? Because I don’t know any progressions on the banjo, y’know? And it’s just different when you have to make different shapes, you’re not immediately gonna fall into the same ones, and then. But I think, I probably, I think the best thing is, if I’m on my computer and I just like completely hyperfocus and like fall into it for like hours and hours? And I’ve started completely from scratch and I have no song that I’ve made or nothing, I just… had an idea and then I just fell into it for ages. ‘Cuz, that doesn’t happen that much with like, yeah ‘cuz with other songs you can do, as, like. With songs I write, like, acoustically I guess, I can do as much as I like, and it’s like fun and I love it, but. When the song’s written it’s written? And it, like it’s not gonna take that long in a way? While, if it’s on the computer there’s, y’know. Then I end up producing the whole song in like one night. [Laughing] And it’s really fun.

Does that happen a lot?

No, not a lot. That’s why it’s like, extra fun when it does. [Both laughing].

Like a happy accident?

Yeayeyeah. I think right now I’m so busy that it doesn’t really, doesn’t really have a chance I guess, to happen. But yeah.

Yeah, uh, as well, ’cause you’ve mentioned that Settling in particular took two years to make? [L: yeah, yeah]. That’s like really… long, I would say. Would you say that was normal, for like, music of that genre or your style?

Uh, well I have no idea how long other artists spend. I think, for me it’s. I wouldn’t say it’s normal, I think. Like, yeah it’s-it’s been the hardest, the longest process that I’ve done. But I think obviously it was like a bit on and off and, I had… I had so many other things as well, like. That I was doing, it wasn’t like I was just doing that for two years, y’know? But. It just, I think it was just a song that needed time and needed long breaks as well? It needed time and long breaks, and like, especially because. Like y’know we got to the point where me and George had listened to it so many times that we were like ‘we have no fucking idea,’ and that would keep happening! Like, not, ‘no fucking idea’ not like that, but like, ‘cuz we just had to mix it. It was just like. We needed a break from listening to it really [laughs tiredly].

Yeah, yeah. How does it feel now that it’s finally out, after all this time?

Um, it feels really good! I’m nervous though, because it’s like I worked on it for so long and I just, I just want people to listen to it so that I can like. [Laughs]. So I can just keep making music and stuff, y’know? And it’s just, it’s hard to get people’s attention.

Ah that’s understandable, with like uh, y’know, TikTok, and y’know, short-form content and things. [L: yeah]. Um, ‘cuz like- your album cover, not album cover but the single cover, uh on Spotify, like this sort of like hand-crafted element to it, um like. Would you say, like is that a sort of protest- not protest, but like a sort of intentional step away from this sort of slew of AI and like, y’know hard-and-fast content that you see. Having something that’s quite meticulously crafted – is that related in a way would you say?

I don’t think it’s very intentional. I would never use AI for anything. ‘Cuz it’s… it’s awful. So, I guess in a way, it’s. I guess it could be like an unintentional protest because it’s just, it’s just the fact that I would never do that, and. And it’s just. Yeah no, I just love art and expression, and I think… I really really love visual art and I think partially like – it’s something that I don’t… I’m not very good at? Um, but I really love, so I really really love when I can watch other people do it, and. I- I love doing it myself as well, it’s just. I get so fascinated by it. I really love it… But no I think it is very important to me to have, yeah! To have everything be, like. Human-made properly, and like, as ethical as I can at this stage, you know what I mean? You know like for example like with… I’ve just gotten merch, that I’m gonna start selling soon, like at the gig, um, I’m gonna start selling merch. But, it’s the kind of like, I can’t really afford- it is like- I remember discussing it where it was like: I can either afford getting an actual artist to make the design instead of just me making something. Or, I can choose to get like, the people making the shirts, like printing them, to do that in like a local print shop. Whereas like I can’t have – obviously the optimal thing would be that, but then instead it’s like… So I’ve decided like. I decided I want an artist to make it, and then I wanted to see what I can find online that’s like at least like semi-ethical? [Laughs]. Y’know like I don’t wanna be selling fast fashion, that feels like I’m scamming people.

That’s really interesting – what is your merch like? And is this the first time you’ve made merch?

Yeah yeah! Yeah it’s the first- ‘first merch!’ Uh, it’s a fox and then it says ‘Ludvik Langholm,’ and we’re gonna order some more that say like, ‘you are etched into everything,’ ‘cuz that’s a song lyric from one of my songs.

That’s sick, and you’re gonna sell that at your gig?

Yeah yeah

So this is your single release show, right? [L: yeah]. Are you excited?

[Laughs] Yeah I’m excited! It’ll be fun. Bit nervous but it’ll be fun.

It’s at Wharf Chambers? [L:yeah, yeah]. Do you play there often?

Um… Well I’ve not played that many gigs this year, ‘cuz there’s so much other stuff that I need to do. But Wharf is probably the place that I’ve played the most times? Um. I think it’s just like, it feels right to do it there, because it’s like a gay bar and I feel very comfortable there? So yeah.

As a queer musician, does like having that sort of… solid, visual community… Is that… helpful to you? In your like art, or like, I don’t know, maybe personally, like, to see, to be in a place…

Definitely, like, I think… Yeah, I mean, it’s like. I think if I didn’t have community I wouldn’t dare to do anything, y’know. Which is, y’know I know that’s bad because, yeah, but. It is just, it’s all very scary, and you just need support, I guess. [A: yeah]. Yeah. But yeah no it’s very um… It’s very good to have, to have all those people. Yeah no it’ll be- I’m really looking forward to the gig, I think it’s gonna be. It’ll be good it’ll be fun. Um. And yeah! It’s like fun to play with the whole band and everything as well.

Who will be playing on, Wednesday like, in the band? ‘Cause your line-up changes quite a lot.

Oh yeahyeah yeah it does. Um, yeah so we’ve got like… We have the people who always play, um, and that’s like… like the core band basically. Um, or, not- not the people who always play because sometimes we can’t have everyone? But like the people who are like. In the band, core band kind of thing. That’s, um, obviously me, and then there’s the drummer Kelan, and bass player Tiana, guitarist and playing accordion, like he switches, is Rowan, and then Toni on backing vocals and piano. And then there’s Lucas on electronics and backing vocals as well. Um, but yeah we can’t always- not every venue or like every event, we’re not always able to have electronics? But it’s just really good when we can ‘cuz it really like- ‘cuz obviously like… the-the like live element is to be able to promote- like for me it’s more about the music that I put out and like the production bit rather than like the- like I love the live aspect, but I started doing live because I wanted to do- I wanted to promote my music that I produce. And then it’s become a lot more because, like, my band is so lovely? [Laughs]. And they’ve really made it their own, so it’s become more of like- it used to be a promotional tool that I wanted to do, and then once it actually started it just became more like… It’s kinda split in two I guess? Um, but yeah, so this gig all of them are playing and then also Nate on clarinet.

Oh this gig? [L: yeah!]. That’s really fun! [Both laugh].

Um. But yeah no it’s just- it’s very like- it’s kinda weird I feel like I have two sides of the whole project because it’s the. It’s the production side which is like very much like… Like me and George doing loads of stuff, and then the band is still involved, because they’ll come and record, but. Me and George spend so many hours and think so much about what to do with everything that… Yeah that’s- it’s kinda like me and George do that. But then with the band, it’s so much about every member? Because they all- yeah like I said, like they all make it their own, so it feels very like… equally split in two, like they both mean a lot to me- both aspects of it, which is really fun ‘cuz, yeah, like I said, that was… That wasn’t really what I was trying to do with the band, it was just how it ended up ‘cuz they’re all amazing musicians. Um, so we’ve recorded a live EP as well. Um, but it’s- [laughs] there’s so much other stuff that it’ll take a bit before it’ll come out, but, hoping like, in the fall. Or end of summer.

That’s really fun – do we get to know what’s on the EP?

[Laughs]. Um, no. [Laughs]. It’s a lot of- it’s more about, I guess with the live EP it’s more about what we play live rather than- well ‘cuz we do play, like it’s yeah- we ‘cuz basically every song has two versions ‘cuz it has the produced version and it has the live version. So that’s kind of how I feel like it’s split in two- it’s like… That’s part of why I’m a little bit nervous about the gig, it’s because- the way we play settling live is completely different from the produced version? So it- I love the live version as much as I love the produced one- well no that’s- I love the produced one more than anything I’ve ever done but- [Both laugh]. But y’know I mean, um. I forgot wait what was it I’m so sorry-

It’s okay that was really interesting.

Um [laughing] what was the original, what was I talking about? Yeah I was talking about how it’s two- two versions of everything, and we’re making- what’s on the live EP, there we go. Uh it’s uh- on the live EP yeah so. It’s a lot of just… That’s just all of them are just like the live versions that we do of songs, and then we prioritise the one- the ones that, not necessarily the produced ones that we like the most, but the ones that we play the most live that people react the most to live? Which is interesting like, yeah so we do some of the songs that are like- they might never get produced because- because it’s the live version I like, like it’s- it’s songs that I’ve written, and then we’ve done them in the band, and I’ve never looked at producing them, and maybe one day I will? But it’s not been like, like for example I have a song called ‘She Heard it from Me,’ and it’s very much like a crowd pleaser. I’ve never recorded any of of it, like [laughing] y’know what I mean like I’ve never- I don’t know if that’s something that I would produce, I don’t know if it’s in the same style as the rest of what I produce? But it one hundred percent fits what we do with the band. So that’s like a live song, and then we have- I would say it’s kind of fifty-fifty like… it’s very much like all the songs that I produce we play live, but about half of the songs that we play live I produce.

Ah that’s really interesting, having like, sort of a dual- I don’t wanna say dual-career but like having, like it perfectly split in half almost.

Yeah, yeah it’s kinda weird [laughing].

Do you have a favourite? Like what’s your favourite to do?

What, between live and producing? [A: yeah] I think it depends, I think honestly right now because I’m just trying to finish a billion things, I really love- it’s like this whole year there’s so much to finish, it’s been really lovely to just go into band practice every week and just sing the songs and play them, and just have- like it’s just really fun? It’s just really lovely and just focus on that for three hours, and then go home and do the rest, so. I’ve been really enjoying that. But, I would say like… [chuckles] I mean I- I prefer band practice to like, gigs – if I’m allowed to say that. I like playing gigs, but it’s- it’s more like, if I’m… I don’t know I think I take a very long time to get used to things, and I think- we’ve played a lot of gigs by now, but… it took a very long time before I actually got really used to it? To playing gigs? And, um. And so I think it’s only the last two gigs I’ve played where I’ve not been like so crazy nervous? Um, but before that it was, like really stressful and I basically had like- it’s kinda like I had a routine every time which was like- not really on purpose but after we played our last song, every single time, I kind of like, because… I’m a little but shy with the crowd I would say? I kind of automatically just turn around, take my guitar off, and then… um, the drummer’s right behind me, so I turn around to them, and every time they’d be like: “that was really good. We played really well.” [Both laughing]. ‘Cuz- yeah she can like, read my mind. Um, and yeah it’s just funny. But now I’m more- now I’m more okay with it, and… yeah, I think I’m enjoying it more? Because I’m not so, like, nervous? So I’m really enjoying that aspect. But I do really love producing- I just think they’re completely different aspects and I love having both of them ‘cuz they’re both breaks from each other in a way? Um, yeah I really love both of them. I think production when I have no pressure- like especially yeah those things when like, no one knows the song exists and it’s just me having fun- and if I wanna throw it away and never look at it again that’s fine. Like when there’s no pressure… That’s so lovely, and also like… when- when it’s just me and George figuring stuff out together, I really love that. Um. I think yeah, I think so much of the goal of my music is to just… express myself and be understood, and I think that he really gets that? And, I feel like- yeah I feel like when I show him a song, we always have the same vision? Even if like neither of us will have the words to express it, but we’re always on the same wavelength of it. Whereas like I’m like- like with Settling I showed it to him and I was like… “I- I just- I want it to be big, and I have this vision for it but I can’t see what it is?” and he said “I’m getting the exact same feeling.” Like he really got it, and- and then we ended up with this product, and I would- and we would not have ended up here without George. I think- because it’s not just… he’s not just like- that he’s like that we’re working on it together but I think it’s also about like the support, in a way? Where it’s like… y’know we’re in this together. [Laughing] It’s not just me? And I think sometimes that holds me more accountable to finishing stuff. ‘Cuz- sometimes it feels like all I do is work, but then if I actually have a deadline then suddenly way more happens [laughs]. So if I’ve got a session with George and I need to finish something before then, yeah. Um, yeah I- one time I pulled an all-nighter before a session with him, ‘cuz I had so much I would finish, and he- he kinda laughs at me ‘cuz he doesn’t see it as necessary. And I came into the session, he was just- and I was like “yeah I pulled an all-nighter to finish it” and he just said like “me when I hate myself.” [Laughing]. I don’t! I- love myself that’s why I stay up all night.

[Laughs] It seems like it means a lot to you though.

What like working with George?

No like, the music and the process – it seems really authentic, like… you care about it so much

Yeah! It’s- it means like- it means so much to me I think sometimes it’s a bit like… Because it’s like everything I do, and- [phone reminder goes off] -sorry. Um. And because it’s like something that I always think about, and, um, and I’m always doing, and it feels like it is like the main thing that I do at all? I- it’s… Yeah it just becomes very important and it’s like really weird to think about like, I’ve not been- music was not like, what I wanted to be or do when I grew up or anything? And it just like. Like it just learnt production when I was like sixteen. I started writing songs at like fourteen? And it’s like for a lot of people they knew when they were so young or like… But I just- and I wasn’t- when I was fourteen, when I started writing and when I started producing I wasn’t good at any instrument. Like I don’t have like a crazy good voice, and I wasn’t very good at any instrument, and. I was- when I started production I was shit at writing- at producing. I was still shit at songwriting, but I just knew? Like I just knew like this is what I have to do and I’m gonna be really good at this. But there was no reason to think that. \[A: that’s so interesting!\] But… I just knew! And now, now I think I am good. [Laughing].

You are good! There you go.

But yeah no, it was never the- it was never the intention, so- sometimes it’s like… Because since then this has been like everything that I think about, it’s so weird because I feel like… It- it feels like I’m in an illusion because I’m like, well surely this is not that main point of my life but it feels like it is? And I don’t mind that it feels that way. Because I’ve been like. I was fine, until I was sixteen-seventeen and decided this is what I’m gonna do, this is- ‘cuz I felt like I had to? It didn’t feel like a choice.

What, music?

Yeah. And… But I was fine up until that point, so I’m like surely I can be fine after, but it just feels like- It just feels like this thing that I met, I can never- it can never be the same? It’s like in those movies where like… They meet like the love of their life, and then they’re like never okay again after they break up- shit like that, like, Notebook or whatever. [A: laughs]. I’ve not seen it but, like- like it felt like that where it’s like… I feel like “surely I’ll be alright, even if I didn’t have music,” and then I’m like, I’m not sure though. I was fine before, but I don’t know if I’d be fine after.

Yeah, that’s so interesting- how did you like, sort of fall into music then?

Um, I don’t know? [Laughing]. I mean, ‘cuz, I played like- I mean I did musical theatre as a kid, and I played violin. But I wasn’t very good at violin and I wasn’t very interested in… practicing [laughs]. Um, but like. Yeah, I just- I always liked writing stories and I really enjoyed- I enjoy- I tried to learn guitar. Basically I tried to learn guitar, couldn’t really do it, then I learnt ukulele, then I came back after I’d learnt ukulele and tried guitar and then it was way easier? And I really loved- I loved writing songs, and I loved- it was more about, like… I guess it was just like a hobby that I tried out and I really enjoyed it and then I kept doing it and then, when I- when I.. When I learnt production, that was like… That was the best thing ever. Like, that was better than anything else that I’d ever done. And, and it was like… And then I think because that was like the final thing, and then I had everything, like I had. I had this instrument that I liked playing, I had these songs like I liked writing, and I had production which I liked doing- and I wasn’t good at any of it but I just knew that I would be. So I guess, yeah I guess I just kinda fell into it and I just felt like I just- I just have to go and study this. And I have to go and do this? And I didn’t really know how? And I think just gives me a crazy imposter syndrome- I keep feeling like… I keep feeling like people are gonna drop out of my project all the time? It’s starting to fade, I’m starting to finally get it that people aren’t just doing me a favour? Like I wasn’t friends with anyone in my band- well, I was with some of them, but most of them I didn’t really know? Or like I barely knew or was like barely friends with. But I still just had this feeling of like, they’re just being nice, they’re doing me a favour by being in the band, like. I was that thing where it was like, I knew that I was good, and I felt like I was good, but I didn’t know if anyone else could see it? So I just… kept feeling like they’re gonna leave my band, and I felt the same with George – I was like, when things took too long, or when I kept saying like “oh I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do this!” and then it took me ages to do it, I was like- he’s gonna have enough and he’s gonna like, he’s so busy, he has so many opportunities. He’s gonna get sick of it and he’s not gonna wanna work with me anymore. But it just hasn’t happened. [Laughs].

Just perpetually.

Yeah, like with everyone, like with, like. One of my friends, like, manages me as well, and even with her I was like- she’s gonna get tired of this, like, she’s not… Just all of them. But it- yeah. No one’s left. [Laughs].

Well that’s good [laughs]. How did they approach you, to join the band?

Well, yeah, so. Um. Well it started out just me and two of my friends who I’ve known like, for a few years. Um. And then like, just me on guitar and then, Rowan on guitar and accordion and Oliver on piano. But then, like… And we did like a couple gigs as use three, but then we were gonna do a gig where we were asked if we could have a full band? [Laughs]. And I said “yeah!” and it was like three weeks away? [Laughs].

Oh God!

Yeah. And then we got like- so then I was like oh shit, like. And then also… Just when. [Laughs]. Yeah when we had three weeks or, two weeks left or something like that. Yeah I think it was two weeks left. Yeah so sorry anyway yeah. First I found like. I found the drummer because, Kelan, because he’d already played- he’d recorded a song for me before? Where he played drums and I liked him. And, and he was just someone I knew because he was a friend of a friend. Um. And then, and then he happened to just fit perfectly? [Laughs]. And then I needed a bass player, and I just texted- I don’t remember if it was Rowan or Kelan I texted and I was just like “do you know any good bass players? Preferably like, not a man?” ‘Cuz there’s… so many men, and- and, yeah. I wanna- I don’t wanna be in a band where it’s just, like- me and a bunch of men. [Laughing]. So, uhm. So yeah I asked if they knew any good bass players and they said like Tiana’s like the best player, the best bass player I know. And I was like fuck yeah. I messaged Tiana and she was down – I’d never spoken to her before.

Oh wow.

Yeah. And then- yeah, and then I was. I- I got a harp player as well who- who I knew, and at this point, like we’re good friends now but at this point I barely knew her? But I messaged her and I was like “do you wanna play?” She said yeah, and then. Yeah, and then… Two weeks before the gig I think it was, uh, Oliver said like. Oliver couldn’t play the gig anymore, uhm. And. We’re all good and everything, but he wasn’t able to. And I was like shit. [emphasised]. [Laughs]. And then we got… we got someone to play? And we had like two band practices with her to teach her everything and she was great, but we found out that she had… Some drama with someone in the band.

Oh God [laughs].

And so… After the like, yeah one or two band practices I was like… I was like like I can’t have any tension in the band like, we have two weeks to practice like, a forty-five minute set. [A: oof!]. We’ve never played a forty-five minute set before, I was like, we have two weeks, everyone’s super busy, we only have a few band practices until then – I can’t have tension in the band? I need a different keys player, and it’s one of the most important, like it’s one of the… I rely on keys so much. Like I follow keys a lot, so it’s like one of the most like… They need to have this shit together. [A: yeah!]. Um, and then I basically, like, I spoke to Kelan about it, and. Yeah and she was like “I have this friend called Toni, I could ask her,” and I’d never spoken to Toni but I knew of her? Um, and she was like “she’s just very chill.” She was like [nonchalantly]: “yeah I’ll do it.” [Laughing]. I was like… I was very intimidated by her. Um, because I couldn’t tell if- figure out if she hated me or not? [Laughing]. But now we’re- now we’re really good friends. Um, but yeah no so. So then she joined the band and then. Yeah she just… She just stayed after that. I think Oliver played a couple more gigs after that I think? One or two? But yeah. But he’s… but he’s now. He still works on the project but he’s no longer the pianist. It’d be too stressful. So now Toni’s the pianist.

It seems quite stressful for you to manage all of this. [Laughs].

Ugh it’s so stressful! [Laughs]. I’m not the person to have to be doing this, like. Like managing the band is so exhausting. But it’s like, yeah. I’m really hoping that yeah, my manager, I’m hoping that she can take more over the organisational parts of things? But she’s already doing so much. [Laughs]. But I- I’m thinking maybe for next year, I might, like. Yeah- or not for next year but like from the summer I guess. ‘Cuz. Yeah, just, sorting band practices and all that stuff. I make like- everyone is- I like I have… really, really amazing musicians but it means that everyone’s busy? So I make [chuckles] Excel spreadsheets to figure out when practice is alright? Yeah.

Speaking of projects, have you got any other summer projects, other than the live EP?

Yeah, so, it’s the rest of the- Settling is the first single of the rest of like a produced EP. And it’s pretty much done? But there’s still a bit left, so. I need to finish that.

When can we expect a release date?

[Nervous noise, laughter]. No expectations!

Okay, ballpark?

[Laughing] This summer.

Coming this summer-

[Mocking a film trailer] This summer: coming!

[Both laughing]

Er- the- em. And then I’ve got. I’ve got another thing, but it’s a secret!

Ooh!

But I’ll just tell you ’cause Andrea’s not here to stop me anyway. [Laughing]. But we’ve done- we did a live recording with yeah the harp player- yeah she’s one of the people who sometimes plays- she plays on pretty much all of the produced songs – it’s kinda funny ’cause yeah, you- I have some- I have the band musicians who play on all the live stuff, and they’re like this is the band. Like they’re very much in the band [gesturing box shape with hands]. They’re a huge part of the project – and they usually play in the songs as well, but then I also have this other musicians who rarely play on the live thing but play on like every song? The harp player is one of them. [A: yeah]. Um. And, yeah um so uh we did this live recording with the harp player, and then Toni, me and Lucas. So we just went into the woods, and we put down a blanket, and we played six songs? We played the whole EP I think. And so I just need to- I just need to comp that, and then, I’ve asked a friend who does mixed media video stuff if she’d be down to make some videos for it. Which I’m really excited for – and she has said yes [laughs]. So that’s- that’ll be coming out before the EP.

Ah that’s so fun! That’s in nature?

Yeah yeah.

That’s so sick, ’cause you’re from, obviously – I’m not sure how much time I’ve got left, but. [L laughs]. You’re from Norway, and I’ve seen on your TikTok you do a lot of coves in nature and… Are you quite inspired by nature and wildlife?

Yeah yeah. I really love, I mean I just love being outside. I don’t get the chance to do that a lot when I’m in Leeds. [A: no] [laughs]. I’m kind of just inside on my computer all day every day. [Laughs]. So when I go home I just wanna be outside as much as I can. And my parents have like a cabin in the middle of nature, like you have to walk there, there’s no road, and. -Well, there’s a road, but it’s not like… There, yknow, you have to walk from the road. And uh- and I just- yeah it’s just my favourite place on Earth like I just wanna be there all the time. And my favourite part of the year – like I always think about- as much as I love doing music I always just think about, like… summer, going home, being outside in nature, in the summer – it just like heals my anxiety, it’s so good… And yeah, I do videos and stuff there ‘cuz it’s just pretty. It’s just pretty and I’m like, comfortable- I feel very confident in- in nature.

That’s really exciting then, with your EP. Um. [L: Yeah]. How would you say that Leeds compares to- to [L laughs]. Like how have you found it?

I- I do love Leeds – I think that… the government sucks. [Chuckles nervously]. And… the system sucks. But the people are lovely? I think that I… Get on with- I mean to be fair maybe it’s because I’m just around musicians, but. I think that I get on with people here a lot better, and I think- I really love that, especially in the North, that strangers just talk to you? ‘Cuz it’s not like that in Norway and I don’t really like it it’s- it’s weird. And uh- But yeah I think- I think in Norway I feel- I feel a lot safer in Norway. Because I am. [Laughs]. Um. And I’m also- yeah. And- and then I… Y’know it’s something about like living in Leeds that’s like- I love it, I love the people, I love the opportunities, everyone I work with is here. All my friends are here ‘cuz all my friends at home have moved away. But, it is just- it’s just scary, like. It’s the whole thing of- it’s just… more unsafe of an area and like… Obviously like, living in like, yeah, like. Yeah I don’t know, just. It’s the whole thing of just… The moment I open my mouth and speak, people will know that I have less security because I’m not from here, d’you know what I mean? [A: oh, hm]. ‘Cause people will hear my accent and, and it just kind of- I feel like a lot of my safety kind of disappears with that- obviously not- obviously I’m not like: “Oh I’m- I suffer from so much stuff, like, I’m the immigrant that suffers the most,” like- obviously I’m hugely privileged just on a, just on like a safety basis of… like scary strangers [laughs]. Yeah, I don’t know. I love Leeds, I just get scared.

Um, let me check how long this has been- please say it’s been recording… Yes- fifty minutes! Wow! [Both laugh]. Should we wrap this up? I mean. As a closing- as a closing note, um, would you have any like advice for anyone who is creating music and wanting to start producing, writing their own songs?

Yeah! Um. I think that you just have to be cool with it’s gonna suck. For like a really long time [laughing]. I think… And- it’s gonna, you’re gonna think that it sounds really good and then you’re gonna come back to it a bit later and you’re gonna think “fuck this sucks!” But that’s a great sign! [Laughing]. ‘Cause that just- it’s that whole thing of like- oh what’s it called, y’know when like, because you’re getting better at stuff, your perception of things, or like your understanding of things, move before your skill?

Yes! Yes, like the graph-

Yeah yeah, the graph thing. But the skill’s gonna follow! So if you can recognise that it’s not that good then it’s fine. But you don’t have to- don’t obsess with it. Just make stuff, and have it be shit it doesn’t matter, you just need to practice the routine of it. And it’s. It’s gonna feel so daunting at first, and you’re gonna be like “I don’t know how the fuck to do any of this,” but then it just becomes natural! You get used to it. And it might take like a while, it might take longer than you think, all that stuff. But just do it! Like, literally what are you gonna lose. It’s like. I think- I think that sometimes people start out with this idea of like, wanting to do it for work. And I think. But then I think that any musician that you speak to who sticks to it, it’s because they’ll tell you like. “Oh y’know I don’t know if I’ll always be doing music as a job, but I’ll always be doing music.” Because it’s just- that just means you love it. Um. So just do it, and. Have it suck, it’s fine. And don’t. I think everyone has so much imposter syndrome? So just. You just- anywhere that you are you deserve to be. Erm. And y’know, just. Have fun! And don’t let stress take over it cause stress… kills creativity and I struggle a lot with that one. Yeah! That’s my advice.

Some solid, solid- uh! Some nice quotes there! [Laughing]. Er, okay! I think we’ll wrap it up. Thank you for your uh, hour. [Both laugh].